By KIRK VICTOR
Shortly after Barack Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004, Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., then chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, encouraged him to join the panel. Soon, they were working closely together on issues relating to nuclear nonproliferation. Obama traveled with Lugar to Russia in 2005, during which they were detained in the city of Perm. It was, as Lugar told National Journal, "quite an initiation for Barack." During the presidential campaign, Obama even aired an ad that featured his work with Lugar as an example of his eagerness to reach across party lines.
Lugar recently spoke to NJ about what to expect in an Obama administration. Edited excerpts follow.
NJ: You encouraged Senator Obama to join the Foreign Relations Committee. What are your impressions of him?
Lugar: Frequently he waited two hours as we went back and forth for questions and answers of witnesses. Patiently he was still there, and I made note of that. I appreciated that. In the summer of '05 he said, 'I know you go to Russia every year, I'd like to go with you.' I said sure, and so we went to Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan. It was about a two-week trip. It had all sorts of extraordinary events, including our detention in Perm and other difficulties with the Russians.
It was quite an initiation for Barack. I think we learned a great deal about each other and our interests, where we came from. It has led to good conversations and good work on the committee before he got tied up with the presidential campaign. He is a creative person, a very intelligent person, has great powers of expression, and extraordinary organizational ability.
NJ: He has a huge network of supporters. Will he be able to use that network to pressure folks on the Hill to advance his agenda?
Lugar: Yes, he can. And he should. This [campaign] developed obviously in a way that perhaps no presidential campaign has ever worked the Internet and the grassroots business so effectively. He and his people know about these things. How well they can adapt them to public policy, as opposed to winning elections, remains to be seen.
NJ: You have sat next to Senator Biden for years as senior members of the Foreign Relations Committee. What will his impact be?
Lugar: Joe Biden will be a very effective member of the administration and vice president, [given his] understanding Congress. He has served for 36 years. Although Barack Obama has served only four years, this is an extraordinary situation in which two members of the Senate are going to be president and vice president. To have two working members of Congress who just left the chamber and have moved down the street obviously is very different than situations in which governors came in or others who have not been in government for a while. These have been very active participants in all of the debates, not only as campaigners but as legislators, people whose votes were recorded. They understand head-counting and how the job gets done.
Their monumental agenda -- solving the world credit crisis and banking crisis and trade crisis -- will [also] have a huge international focus. At a time in which the Pew survey and others have pointed out for years that we have been disapproved more than approved in other countries, we suddenly have an opportunity, if we are skillful in our own diplomacy and leadership, to take charge of these areas in a way in which world opinion will be highly supportive.
It's either a godsend that you have this November 15th meeting with other countries equally eager to deal [with these problems], or it could be the beginning of a very bad unraveling of United States leadership. We are going to have to, in our own country, regain prosperity. We cannot have a $450 billion deficit and add to that a series of reinvestment bills. The rest of the world cannot be counted on to pay our bills indefinitely. Most Americans understand that and say, 'First things first: Get the credit markets, get the banking system back, try to solve the problem of homeowners being put out on the street.'
NJ: Do you agree with Senator Biden that when he becomes president, Barack Obama will be tested with an international crisis in his first six months?
Lugar: I don't believe there will necessarily be somebody at our doorstep with a potential attack or that type of thing. One can say that immediately Barack Obama will be tested, maybe to the -nth degree, because he is dealing with our country having terrible economic setbacks immediately.
It's not a question of a 9-11, of somebody attacking New York or Washington. The fact is that people are losing their jobs even as we talk about it. The juice is going out of the system. In that respect, you can say this man will be tested in a way that nobody else has been tested. It is the kind of test that Barack Obama could be fully capable of making extraordinary progress. If so, that won't mean immediate prosperity in our country in 2009, or maybe even the following year, but he has some chance of seeing our country and the world move along during his term of office in a trend line which is very satisfying.
The opposite could also occur: Right off the bat, before the man really has a chance to get his feet beneath the desk, the thing will have veered out of control. In that case, he will have a host of problems -- and it is hard to sort out from one to 10, really, the most serious.
NJ: There's much speculation that you will be called on to join the new administration, perhaps as secretary of State. Are you interested?
Lugar: I want to continue serving in the Senate, representing the people of Indiana, as ranking member of Foreign Relations Committee. From that standpoint I will be able to do the best for my state, for the country and likewise to help the president.
NJ: So you won't take a post in the administration?
Lugar: I don't want to be in the administration. I want to do what I am doing now.
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